Who are your Biggest Cheerleaders?
"Those are your champions." - Ben Baker
Ben and Syya are back to unpack how strong business relationships are built. They share how to turn clients and colleagues into loyal champions, why emotional connection creates long-term loyalty, and how recovery from mistakes builds trust. The conversation is packed with insight on how to create a sense of belonging, communicate with purpose, and execute with care.
Key Takeaways:
✔ People drive business success
✔ Champions are created through trust and connection
✔ Loyalty grows when clients feel seen and heard
✔ Mistakes can lead to stronger relationships
✔ Communication and execution go hand in hand
Learn more about Ben Baker: IamBenBaker.com
Chat with Syya and the team at Brilliant Beam Media
Transcript
If there's one thing we've learned about business and life is that people are the X
factor.
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:They constantly surprise us both in amazing ways and not so much.
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:We're Ben and Sia and welcome to the Nod On This Business Bites podcast.
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:This show is all about real life things we all deal with every day, how they relate to
business and how to make some sense out of our daily chaos.
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:Welcome to the show.
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:And welcome back to another episode of not this business bites.
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:I'm Ben and this is Sia.
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:So here is what I really want to know about this week.
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:How do we turn bad customer experience and turn it into great customer experience?
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:Not to go into the last 10 days of hell of my life, but I have had 10 days of trying to
deal with the challenge with a certain vendor.
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:and being sent hither and yon from department to department to be transferred and pushed
and hung up on more times than I care to imagine.
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:And every single time I talk to somebody new, they start the conversations as this message
is being recorded and you will probably get a customer service survey.
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:And the first one is about how your interaction was with me.
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:Well, I probably talked to 15 people over the last 10 days on this one particular issue.
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:I have yet to get a customer service survey.
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:Now, here's what happened.
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:I have a friend of mine who is at the senior directors level.
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:I emailed him last night and I said, look, I know this is not your department.
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:I know this is not your problem.
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:I completely understand this, but you got to help me out after 10 years.
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:Can you just have somebody who can help me out?
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:contact me and figure this one out.
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:Well, guess what?
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:I got a call today from the office of the president.
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:This woman was professional.
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:She was empathetic.
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:She listened.
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:She understood.
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:I felt valued.
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:I felt heard.
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:She was professional.
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:And she said, look, I'm sorry.
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:I'm sorry you've gone through this.
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:Let me take down all the information.
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:Let me get all the information.
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:says, we could probably fix this while I have you on hold, but it's probably going to take
me at least an hour to do this.
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:Let me take your phone number.
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:Let me call you back later today when it's done.
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:When are you available?
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:And 10 days of aggravation, of angst, of frustration rolled off my shoulders.
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:Because all of a sudden Somebody was actually taking care of things somebody was actually
taking the time to treat me as a human being and not just as somebody that needs know
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:you're talking to the wrong person let me trans you don't weigh and off I get transferred
and yeah, off you go into the vortex and We need to think of this company's large and
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:small
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:How do we innovate from the customer backwards?
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:How do we as companies sit there and say, wait a second here, we don't exist without our
customers.
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:Salaries don't get paid, bonuses don't get paid, shareholders don't get paid, bills don't
get paid, whatever.
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:Nothing gets paid until a customer buys.
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:And if the customer isn't buying, the company isn't viable.
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:And if doesn't rebuy, that's the other.
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:they don't rebuy and we can go very quickly from being a brand worth loving to a commodity
that's low cost, low value, easily replaced and soon forgotten.
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:So let's talk about customer experience.
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:Let's not in this SIA because customer service is not a cost center.
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:It's a profit center.
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:If done properly, if strategized,
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:If the people processes and procedures are in place, customer experience becomes a profit
center and not just a cost to the bottom line.
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:See you, let's know on this.
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:So 100 % look, think what you're what you've experienced is like, I feel like the majority
now.
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:Okay, good, bad, ugly and different.
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:I think you sent me an article about a company that laid off all their customer experience
reps and now they're hiring.
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:Klarna if I remember correctly.
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:Right.
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:And uh I commented back and I said, look, automating, leveraging AI and all that good
stuff.
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:That is uh great when you need to automate something that it's redundant.
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:And it's just like mind numbing data entry kind of stuff.
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:Right.
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:However, when it requires human interaction, something that's going to be emotional, you
can't bought it out.
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:No.
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:You just can't because you know why I will feel like, I'm just a commodity to you because
you're treating me like I could be taken care of and satisfied by some bot, whatever.
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:Now, if it's something like, what are our work hours?
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:Sure.
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:Automate that.
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:Right.
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:Yeah, I get that.
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:But if it's something where like you experienced S H I T ain't working.
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:I want to talk to someone.
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:Don't just route and then here's what's frustrating.
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:I know this is this is I don't want to pile on AI.
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:I want to pile on humans who just passed the buck and they're like deuces hot potato hot
potato.
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:know, you listening to your story reminded me why um and I don't mind bragging on my
partner in life.
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:He's no longer in the industry.
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:But when he was he was in cybersecurity and he had clients who were like your product
doesn't do X.
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:He compiled a list of like, Hey, well, tell me what you want out of our product and I'll
tell you what we can and cannot do.
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:The fact that was so blunt, so honest and, and, he's like, I get it.
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:I think that's a good, feature.
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:think I will go and talk and I'll tell you what I can experience.
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:Now I am just a mere engineer, but, but if, but if I can get, I will advocate for you.
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:Right.
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:And I got to tell you, he was the, one of the most requested engineers.
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:Because he was honest about it.
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:He kept deals where there was no business of that that particular product staying in that
environment.
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:But because he was so honest, and because he was so uh communicative, he would literally
they come back with a list of 25 things.
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:And he's like, we can do five of the 25 just heads up.
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:And they're like, okay.
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:Okay, that's the customer wanted to be heard.
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:Yeah, of course, doesn't give you a big ol wish list.
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:Yeah, we all want look.
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:If I if I could be, you know, taller, skinnier, younger, whatever, I mean, you know,
everyone got their unicorn wishlist.
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:Okay, ain't happening kids.
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:But if you can get the core fund, founded foundational stuff, that that's all people want
to if if the answer is, I really can't do that for you.
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:That's just tell me and then say, okay.
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:Like
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:I'm not the right person, but let me find the right person for you.
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:This is a difference between hot potato versus I'm still going to be with you every step
in the way I will check in and be like, Hey, was this person a good resource for you?
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:No.
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:Okay.
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:Sorry about that.
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:You know what I mean?
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:Like it's, it's finding the right people, not hot potatoing it.
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:It's still guiding them that it's always like that.
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:Jiminy cricket.
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:I'm still here.
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:I'm still the voice that's checking in on you.
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:know, anyway, well,
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:It's funny because I'll just go back and give a little backstory for Klarna before we move
forward because kind of glossed over that.
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:A year ago, they were touted in the newspaper that they were getting rid of 700 customer
service people and moving it over to AI.
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:And initially, they were having huge success out of this.
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:And it was making all the news in newspaper.
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:A year later, they realized there was absolutely no growth.
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:In fact, that there was some diminished
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:because of the lack of customer service people, because the AI could only do so much and
it couldn't do everything.
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:And therefore they didn't have the live human beings that could actually do the stuff that
the AI can do.
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:So they ended up hiring back the 700 people and probably more.
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:And I'm a big believer of AI will be part of all our lives.
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:will be things that AI will do.
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:And as you said,
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:AI is really good at rote stuff and being able to sit there and say, I can do this, I can
do this, I can do this, I can do this.
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:Wait a second, I can't do this.
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:Let me kick you out to a human being.
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:But before I send you to a human being, let me give a synopsis of what we already talked
about to that human being.
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:Already authorize you as a user so you don't have to say, hi, my name's Ben, my postal
code is this, my phone number is this, my client number is this.
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:You know, the AI should already have all that stuff up on the screen.
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:It should, you know, summarize what, what, what you've already talked to the AI about.
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:And it might even suggest two or three different solutions.
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:That's what good AI should do.
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:And that's where the handoff is.
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:So this poor customer service agent who gets on the phone, who says, hi, my name's John.
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:What's your name?
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:Please.
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:And all of sudden it gets hit with, you know, with
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:berated from a customer service person because they waited for 30 minutes for the AI to
kick in.
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:Then the AI dances them around and now they're on hold and they have to wait for a person
who doesn't know what their problem is.
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:So they have to go through it from scratch.
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:Well, why am I dealing with the AI in the first place?
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:Well, it's disparate systems, right?
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:It is.
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:They thought that they could be more efficient by plugging this thing in, not integrating
with the existing call center platform, I'm assuming.
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:Whatever.
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:Or they just ignore and they're like, screw it.
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:Like, we're just gonna start over.
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:And, you know, people like, well, here's the other thing I'm gonna I'm gonna I'm gonna I'm
gonna be the anti I'm gonna be the I'm gonna get I'm gonna do the business side why the
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:decisions are made.
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:People lie, Ben.
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:People will lie to AI all damn day long saying, uh you know,
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:I'll admit it.
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:So I um had a technical issue and I knew I was dealing with AI.
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:And so I said, Hey, we're looking to renew and we're having issues with our original
login.
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:Can you help us?
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:You know, blah, blah.
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:And it's shocking.
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:I instantly got a email back from the renewal team of like, yeah, yeah, yeah.
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:We'll help you.
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:help you.
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:Whereas before, when they're like, Hey, I need help with my password.
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:um
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:No, no help whatsoever.
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:Right?
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:Like, yeah, no, what I think it's hilarious.
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:So I think I think people lie though.
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:And I think that's why businesses are basically saying, look, we have to kind of go with
the average.
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:People lie because they know that if they make things worse than they are, they're going
to get service.
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:The squeaky wheel gets noticed.
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:It's amazing to me when I call up my telco and I go to renew my plan, I get one price.
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:If I threaten to go to the competition, that price and that offer changes dramatically.
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:And I know that.
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:I know that...
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:All of sudden I can talk to one department and they can only do so much.
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:They only have so many arrows in the quiver, but it's amazing.
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:As soon as you go to their customer retention department, the rules change.
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:The rules change dramatically when you talk to the customer retention department.
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:And it is within every company because companies, they realize it's cheaper to placate you
than it is to find new...
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:than the cost of getting new clients on board.
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:But why do you have to go to the extreme?
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:Why, when you're dealing with customer service, why are your people not empowered to be
able to help you?
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:Why do you have to pull rank, call a manager, go to a customer retention team, whatever,
just to be able to feel like you're being treated regularly?
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:We as...
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:It's human beings want to be listened to, understood, and valued.
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:And the key word is valued.
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:If we don't feel that we're valued, we'll take our ball and we'll go somewhere else.
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:I've done it.
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:I just did it with my accountant this year.
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:I figured my accountant wasn't paying attention to me, he wasn't listening to me.
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:He wasn't, you know, being attentive.
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:And guess what?
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:I'm gone.
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:I'm gone.
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:And he lost out on several thousand dollars worth of work this year.
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:And for probably the next 10 or 15 years, because he wouldn't answer my emails and he
wouldn't answer my phone calls and he wouldn't call me back for whatever reason.
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:And I don't, I don't know when I don't care.
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:if you ignore me, if you lie to me, if you try to deceive me, I'm gone.
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:And that should be fright and center of every customer experience department is that.
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:if we treat people on the other end of the phone as human beings that deserve to be
listened to, understood and valued.
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:Most people are reasonable, as you said with your partner.
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:He was able to say, look, we can do this, but we can't do this.
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:And as long as you're open and honest about it, people go, oh, OK, if you can do that,
that's great.
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:That's wonderful.
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:you know what, look, in the heat of moments when things aren't being done, I get I get
heated, man, I can go into see a Karen mode.
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:And that's a very vicious one you don't ever want to see.
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:But and I and I try to tame it.
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:People who've seen me, I do try to tame it.
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:But uh is if you just tell people, look, I think I see your problem.
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:I don't have an answer.
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:I'll try to find an answer.
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:Here's what I think might be the problem.
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:People are okay with that, right?
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:Let me get back to you.
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:But let me get back to you and then do it.
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:Yes, you're 100%.
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:And even if the answer is coming back, like, hey, give me a week.
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:And you come back a week later going, I'm really, and say, I'm really sorry.
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:I'm trying and I'm not getting movement here, but I am still working on your behalf.
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:That's all you need to say.
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:appreciated.
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:People want sit there and they know what's going on in the queue.
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:They don't want to feel ignored.
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:Well, they don't want you to feel you're forgotten.
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:I mean, and ignored.
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:Yeah.
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:Like it could be where you're like, and I've, and I've seen him write because I've seen
him copy me because he was my engineer too at some point, but telling the client like,
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:look, this, this line item right here that you say is a must have is not in the queue for
engineering period.
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:So we're not going to see it for another 90 days period.
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:can
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:put the request in and try to get it in for Q, you the next quarter over.
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:But we need you aware there will be no more movement on this.
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:What can we can we focus on an alternative?
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:Like, us why this is such a hard business need.
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:will take that to the you know, if it's
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:it to the team and see if we can expedite it.
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:it's gonna cost you a million dollars in business.
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:That's a good reason for me to pitch for, like tell me why it's an issue.
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:yeah, Ben, we can talk about this all day.
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:And we should really land this plane.
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:But I think that if we treat people like human beings, and if we want to get gotten back
in touch with, if we don't want to be ignored, we don't want to be sidelined, why would we
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:think somebody else would?
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:So I'm Ben, and we'll see you soon.
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:Hey hey hey, thanks for listening to another episode of Not On This Business Fights.
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:If you liked what you heard, be most humbly asked that you like, share, and hit that
subscribe button.
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:If you want to communicate more effectively within your organization, contact ben at
imbenbaker.com or me at brilliantbeammedia.com.
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:We can help you build your community, brand awareness, and personality.
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:digital content and podcasting.
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:cannot wait to hear from you.
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:See you next week for another episode of NonList Business Pites.
